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Author Topic: Hoosier a6 tires on the way!  (Read 8252 times)
gunny
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« on: August 04, 2009, 07:13:07 PM »

Well I just couldn't resist! I was going to wait till next season to get some dedicated tires for autocrossing. So now I have some A6's on the way I'm wondering what I need to do to the Vette to take advantage of the tires? I've talked to alot of people and I get alot of differing opinions on how an alignment should be done on a car that is a part time autocrosser/track day car and a car that street tires will be use to smoke some ricer's (without killing the street tires......I have a WRX so dont be to hard on me!) on some nice mountain roads. (kidding to all you ricers!........................... not really lol)
Some input would be much appreciated (Roger, John and any other forum lukers that knows about vettes)
If your like me (I hate to type and would much rather talk) here is my number
804-seven 2 one- five five three 1 or I guess I'll see you at the next event.
or you can share your secrets here! LOL

Thanks

Gunny

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jloehlein
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2009, 12:16:57 AM »

On the C5 Z06, we would run a small bit of toe out up front and toe in out back (1/16" or 1/8" total) to get the car to rotate.  It was also important to keep some rake with the rear end a little higher than the front.  If the car doesn't rotate, try lowering the front or raising the rear.  I'd also run a bunch of camber up front, maybe -2 degrees.  We used to eat front tires twice as quickly as rears, we would cord the outside edge.  -2 degrees of camber and 1/16" toe out shouldn't be too hard on street tires, though they definitely won't last as long as factory settings.  I don't remember tire pressures, I want to say we ran low-mid 30s up front and high 20s in the rear, but we were also running 295s and 315s so YMMV.  We used to align the car with someone in the driver's seat.  I've got a tire pyrometer that I bring to most events.  I can take the tire temps when you are hot off a run at some point to see how the camber and tire pressure settings are working for you.

Oh, and you may need to start bringing a sprayer of ice water to the hot events.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 12:18:48 AM by blue06civic » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 11:10:34 AM »

don't forget caster...probably as much as you can get.  -2 camber probably isn't enough to take full advantage of the A6's, but it's probably a good compromise for a car that runs on the street too.  I run -2.75 camber and +7 caster on my FFR and the temps are perfect on A6's.
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gunny
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 05:59:57 PM »

Thanks!
I was talking to the mechanic a Zips Corvette and for auto crossing he said the tow in and tow out is very important, more so than camber for the lower speeds of autocrossing. He said as the speeds get higher then camber really starts to play a important part. Anyhow what he recommended to me was to take tire temps accross the tire and bring them to him and he will have a good Idea for what to do. He also said he can make changes the would be great for autocrossing but would eat street tires so he recommended not to make any changes yet because a C6 with the z51 suspension package is pretty aggressive out of the box.
The tires came in today! (is it the 16th yet?) I feel like a kid at christmas and cant wait to try out my new toys with 400hp pushing them!

Gunny

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JCHVMSC
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2009, 07:21:54 PM »

Here's what I have collected so far - seems to match what others have said
p.s. my experience is that negative camber has a major impact on turn in

Recommended Corvette Alignment Settings

When you are ready to lower it (should be before an alignment) you need to get a wrench that has 5 sides in the box end.  The bolt in the front WILL strip if you try to use one with 6/8/12 sides.  We have one if you need to borrow it.  Lower the front as far as it will go.  The fronts you need to lift the car AND lift up on the leaf spring as you lower to make turning the bolt easier.  I would suggest driving the car around the block or down a really bumpy road a couple of time before moving to the rear.  This helps settle the suspension.  Everyone I have talked to mentions how long it takes the suspension to settle (my guess is due to the transverse leaf spring).
 
Then for the rear you want to lower it until it is 1/8" higher than the front.  My recommendation is to mark the underside of the car near each wheel with a paint marker so you are always measuring from the same point (thats what we did).
 
The standard off the shelf Koni's are fine.  Talk with Strano about the bar.  I am not sure if the CE has a different bar already.  Also you can talk to him about classing.  He is on the SEB.  If you call Strano Performance Parts and ask to talk to him he is very helpful.  The bar on my car was one he had bent custom for Pat Salerno and it worked so well Adco put it in their book.
 

Pfadt

Pure Street
Front   Camber   -0.8 deg   Caster   8.0 deg      Toe 0.0 in
Rear   Camber   -0.5 deg            Toe 0.0 in


Dual Street/Track
Front   Camber -1.2 deg   Caster 5 to 8 deg   Toe 0.0 in
Rear   Camber -0.8 deg            Toe 0.0 in

Notes:    For using street tires and driving to and from the track
This setting will work for R-compounds at the track


Dual Street/Track Aggressive
Front   Camber -1.6 deg   Caster 5 to 8 deg   Toe 0.0 in
Rear   Camber -1.1 deg            Toe - 1/8 in

Notes:    For using R-compound tires, and minimal street driving.
This setting will cause wear on the inside edges of street tires

Dedicated Track Car
Front   Camber -2.5 deg            Caster 3 to 6 deg           Toe 0.0 in - possibly some toe out
Rear   Camber-1.9 deg                                                    Toe 0.0 in - a little toe in to settle the rear

Notes:    Race tires, DOT or slicks

Keath
Front   Camber   -2.15 deg   Caster   8.0 deg      Toe 1/8 out (Total)
Rear   Camber   -1.50 deg            Toe 1/4 in (Total)

Alignment: Others
Front   Camber -1.2 to -2.2 deg   Caster 6 to 8 deg      Toe 0.0 to +0.125 in
Rear   Camber -1.08 to -1.6 deg            Toe 0.0 to +0.250 in

Notes:    Front: Camber: More is better but what you can get will depend on your car.  Also the more you add the more you will negatively affect your braking too; Caster: Maximum after setting camber and equal on both sides. Rear: Toe: The less control you have, or the more aggressive you want to be exiting corners, the more toe-in you'll want.  New drivers want to be aggressive however, the more throttle control you have the faster you'll be from what I've seen;  Camber: - -1.6 seems to hurt traction and braking and going lower gets more rubber on the road to put power down but shortens tire life. 
Ride Height: The only real question here is the nose height.  The rear height will be set off of the nose with the rake adjustment.  Two schools of thought: slam the nose all the way down to reduce the CG and improve handling (yes the shocks will hit the bump stops but all autox cars hit the bump stops); or keep the nose up to allow the shocks to work over their full range and reduce the time on the bump stops, but handling may suffer.  You help your transitions, but raising the CG hurts your grip on the sweepers.  Nothing is free.  If you can increase the shock pressures you can lower farther because the shocks can act as springs, but you'll wear them out faster with the higher pressures. 
Once you have the front at the height you want based on your strategy set the rake by adjusting the rear ride height.  1/8th to 1/4 inch rake as measured off the frame rails.  The more rake you have the more the car will rotate in the slow stuff (this is the opposite of what road racers do because in autox you don't get the down forces that the RRs do.  The higher the rear, the looser the rear in autox).

Corner balance the car!
Tires:  A6s: 295/315s; 710s: 275/315s.  The Hoosiers are shorter, and therefore quicker, the Kumhos are taller and therefore faster.  Pick your poison, most run the A6s but if the new nationals site has us bumping off the rev limiters in Hoosiers then maybe the taller 710s will be the ticket this year.  Pressures: Talk to your local guys but starting on asphalt with 32 front and 28 rear with the A6s won't hurt you and with 710s you'll use less, 28 front/24 rear is a good starting point.
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gunny
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2009, 08:33:42 PM »

ok being the techie I am I just had to post a shot of my new tires.

The bottom three tires (there is another below) are the re050a pole position tires (street tires I've been running). The top 4 are the Hoosiers!
So now how do I get the Hoosiers to the track? Do I drive all 4 of them to the track OR I have tested and I can fit 3 of the 4 tires in the Vette and drive them to the event, I would drive to the event on 3 street tires and one race tire. When I got to event I would put the other 3 Hoosiers on naturally I would rotate the tires around so only one of them would have to get me back home.
Can this work? or do I need to trailer some tires in (which I really dont want to do for various reason, Hitch on a vette, Yuck!  Tongue)
(dunno how to put a image here)

Gunny
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 08:36:24 PM by gunny » Logged
jloehlein
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 11:06:59 PM »

How far do you need to drive to get to RIR or VMP?  Some people do just drive on their R-compounds.

Also, to attach a file, click Reply at the bottom of the thread, then Additional Options.
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 03:56:02 PM »

I live about 2 miles maybe 3 from you. It would be a short drive to RIR and about a 45 minute drive to VMP.
 any recommendations for a tire installer. Mintz wants 2 hundred bucks to pull my Bridgestones off and put the hoosiers on (on the plus side there really close to my house)

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:18:33 PM by gunny » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 06:42:34 PM »

Nice pic!  I would recommend Dyke Tire near Broad and Parham.  A little farther, but the price is good and they seem like they know what they are doing.  I had them dismount my old R-comps and install the new ones and I think it was under $20 per wheel.  I'm pretty sure David Ogburn has had good experiences there and they used to sponsor the Marxs IIRC.  I don't drive on the R-comps on the street for fear they may get too many heat cycles, but I'm no tire expert.  I know Roger drives on his all over the place though and they seem to be doing fine.
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 06:37:36 AM »

Very nice. You'll love 'em. R-Crack is a crazy addiction!  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 08:54:56 PM »

 Tires to the track thats a tough one . I think Roger said he just drives his to the track on the car and keeps a plug kit in case he springs a leak .

maybe a broomstick handle shoved through the centercaps and two peices of rope tied to either end

or stack em in the back tie your lift gate down with a rope and put one in the passengers seat ?
  :  )
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 07:38:19 AM »

Nice pic!  I would recommend Dyke Tire near Broad and Parham.  A little farther, but the price is good and they seem like they know what they are doing.  I had them dismount my old R-comps and install the new ones and I think it was under $20 per wheel.  I'm pretty sure David Ogburn has had good experiences there and they used to sponsor the Marxs IIRC.  I don't drive on the R-comps on the street for fear they may get too many heat cycles, but I'm no tire expert.  I know Roger drives on his all over the place though and they seem to be doing fine.

Agree with the recommendation of Dyke. They do good work, charge reasonable prices, and take an interest in what you are racing.

David
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 06:33:17 PM »


 I picked up my used set yesterday evening from UPS I'm quite positive there is no way im going to shoehorn those tires in that itty bitty z06 agian . I'll be driving them to the events . Hopefully if i get a flat it will be on the way home   :  P
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 05:32:22 PM »

I'm going to stuff 3 of them in my car. I figure I can rotate the rear tires by driving one to the event and driving the other side home from the event. It will at least save one heat cycle and the fronts will only be on the car at the track.

Gunny

I'm pumped up for this upcomming auto-x!!!!
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 06:19:01 PM »

I would strongly caution against putting one slick on the road.  If you have to panic stop, and it's a front tire, that tire will have FAR more trip than the other, and may yank the wheel out of your hand.  Conversely, if you get on it, and it's on the rear, who knows which way you're gonna go.

Put two on, if not all 4, and both at the same end of the car.
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2009, 07:58:46 PM »


 good advice I didn't think about that . Probably just run the fronts I have a feeling the vette pushes alot and probably eats the outside edge of race rubber unless you got like -2.5 or more camber running theyll probably go fast anyway .
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 06:52:50 AM »

I would strongly caution against putting one slick on the road.  If you have to panic stop, and it's a front tire, that tire will have FAR more trip than the other, and may yank the wheel out of your hand.  Conversely, if you get on it, and it's on the rear, who knows which way you're gonna go.

Put two on, if not all 4, and both at the same end of the car.

Thanks for the advice!
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