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Author Topic: Surry  (Read 2442 times)
gpassut1
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« on: August 25, 2006, 02:59:58 PM »

Please verify starting place and times for this event.  Thanks

Genie
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draco50
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 05:04:19 PM »

Well, if anyone is wondering where we ran off to, we retired after checkpoint 1.  Following the generals in conjunction with the NRIs sent us off course for over half an hour, after which we threw everything in the back seat, drove home, and forgot about it all.
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Pasha Paterson : zerobandwidth autosports
2010 Mazda 3 2.5L (HS/S/SU2)
2002 VW Golf GLS 2.0 R (HS/S/SU2) -- SOLD 16 May 2011
1969 VW Karmann-Ghia 1915cc (EP/-/MU2)
Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia 50th Anniversary in North America -- 1956-2006
Curmudgeon
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 11:09:54 AM »

I had a bad feeling about Mr Sanetrik's rally when the end of the Odo leg was on a road which, by the rules in his general instructions, did not exist.  His reaction when I pointed this out was "Oh, details."  Well, yes details.  A course rally is supposed to be an exercise in precise interpretation of the instructions after all, and by that criterion the rally was not runnable from the get-go, since the endpoint for the Odo leg did not exist.  His protestations at the start that we should "not overthink" the instructions seem, in retrospect, to have been another way of saying "I haven't given them a lot of thought, so neither should you."  
 
Pasha and I did bite what I assume to be the intentional trap on Leg#2.  Running on 652, working on:
  31. Left.
  32. Left at 258.
  33. Right at 651.

You came to a crossroad with 644, which you were ONTO from a long way back.  Correct logic seems to have been:
1) We can't do the NRI to go Left, since that would not take us off our Main Route, which is 644 because we are ONTO it.
2) We can't use this MRD to turn here, because it is ambiguous (644 goes both right and left)
3) So continue down the priorities to "go straightest".
If you get all this right, you go on to a "Y" where you execute the NRI 31 at 692 which tees out at US258, where you do NRI 32 and go on to 651 and do NRI 33.
 
If you bite the trap and execute NRI 31 at the crossroad, you come to a "T"  with 637 and do a Right .  I'll bet Mr. Sanetrik thought he had cleverly looped the trap, because 637 also tees out on US258 north of 651, so you if you follow it the instructions work and you may even think you are on course until you get to the next checkpoint.  
 
But oh yes, there was another "detail":  going along 637, before you get to US258 you come to a "Y" where 644 goes to the left.  You cannot execute NRI 32 here, so you must leave the intersection on your "Main Road" which by the Main Road Determinant rules is 644.  This also tees out on US258, but south of 651.  So you do NRI 32 and go less than a mile and again by MRD take 644 going off to the right.  In fact, 644 goes all the way to Zuni on US460, and you won't find any route 651, but you can use the 6.6-mile callback to be sure you are lost before you get all the way to Zuni.  At this point, we thought about going to the midpoint and doing a restart.  But oh, there was another "detail": if you were off course you had no way to find the midpoint.
angry
So we made our best decision of the day:  we went home.  We had used our free-rally coupon to pay for the event, so I guess we got what we paid for, huh?  Oh, and one more "detail": I doubt I will be signing up for any more of Mr. Sanetrik's rallys.
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Curmudgeon
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 12:38:52 PM »

Chuck informs me that I am a hopeless idiot for not having (and memorizing) the official SCCA Road Rallye Rules (RRR) if I am going to run SCCA events.  My abject apologies to Mark Senatrik ... it's not his fault that I am accustomed to the VMSC convention of the General Instructions being the complete set of rules necessary for running the event.

Our problem Saturday was our ignorance of the official "RRR-Onto" definition:
Quote

"Onto - the main road, as determined by this determinant, is the road that the execution of a specified action of a route instruction has directed the contestant to travel upon by use of (1) the term onto and (2) the designation (name, number, or letter(s)) of the road. The designated road is the main road at each intersection where this MRD is applicable until a course-directing action (requiring the contestant to leave the main road) is executed."

So there.  We actually did it right by turning left at the crossroads on the NRI, and we made our own trap by taking 644 because we used a definition of "Onto" from another rallye we ran last year.  By "RRR-Onto", we should have ignored 644 altogether once any "course-directing action" caused us to leave it.
:wtf:
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ceecpa
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 05:44:08 PM »

GPat is correct in that the course was designed to reinforce the RRRs so that VMSC competitors could potentially do well in the Old Dominion Rallies.

GPat was not correct in his understanding of the Generals vis-a-vis the RRRs, but, like in most other areas, the SCCA approach prevails and we all need to be aware of what they say.

VMSC is participant/sponsor of the Old Dominion Rallies this year.  The Old Dominion Rallies have been a part of VMSC lore since approximately 1952.  For arithmetically challenged folks that's 54 years.

I understand that young folks have no interest in the activities of the previous generation.  However, road rally is the only motorsport activity that requires no special equipment.  In addition you can take significant others, children, or your mother in law along.

GPat is a difficult customer to satisfy.  He wants things correct.  And I agree with him.  Do you agree about both rally and autocross?:
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Chuck Edwards
draco50
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 06:25:37 AM »

I agree that, having given it several honest tries, I'd rather work for a course rally than compete in one.
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Pasha Paterson : zerobandwidth autosports
2010 Mazda 3 2.5L (HS/S/SU2)
2002 VW Golf GLS 2.0 R (HS/S/SU2) -- SOLD 16 May 2011
1969 VW Karmann-Ghia 1915cc (EP/-/MU2)
Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia 50th Anniversary in North America -- 1956-2006
draco50
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2006, 12:23:05 PM »

Results, such as they are, are posted.
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Pasha Paterson : zerobandwidth autosports
2010 Mazda 3 2.5L (HS/S/SU2)
2002 VW Golf GLS 2.0 R (HS/S/SU2) -- SOLD 16 May 2011
1969 VW Karmann-Ghia 1915cc (EP/-/MU2)
Volkswagen Karmann-Ghia 50th Anniversary in North America -- 1956-2006
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