24 Hours of Lemons 2009

[Conemasher]

On a related note... I stopped by Adrenaline this afternoon with Chris Cobetto (2-time Spec E30 national roadracing champ and NASA-MA regional director.)  We went in the back and checked out two cars they have caged, both drag Hondas.  Then we had a goooooood long talk about NASA/SCCA/etc rollcage design and rules.

Long story short I think your Lemons car will be in good hands.

Jon

Thanks Jon. I felt the same way just in my conversations with Rick. He proactively called me a few days ago to touch base. Seems very professional. We just want to make sure all the cage components are to spec in the quote he gave us.

[ahamos]

I just talked to Rick, and there's a big difference between what he thought we needed and what we do in fact need.  He's accustomed to working on dragsters, which have dramatically different cage requirements.  I'm going to swing by his shop tomorrow with the SCCA GCR's and pictures of my car.

But some questions he answered:

1.  They do not do NASCAR bars (bent into the door area).
2.  No serious price difference between 1 1/2" and 1 5/8" tubing
3.  No gussets
4.  Yes, he meant a 6-point roll-bar--not a cage at all.

Expect the price to rise dramatically when I show him pictures...


Did anyone ever see if there's an AutoPower solution?  We could always have a pre-fabbed cage welded into place.

[getfast]

Hey Adrian, Rick isn't the cage builder at Adrenaline.  Dan Driskill is the cage builder.  That's the man you need to speak with (and the guy Cobetto and I spent an hour with the other day talking about NASA/SCCA cage requirements specifically.)  For one thing, Dan has no problem with doing NASCAR door bars as far as I know.

As for Autopower... http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AP420

Shipping will be steep on an Autopower, truck freight from Cali.  The nearest dealer around here is OG Racing in noVA.

[ahamos]

Anybody want to join me for lunch tomorrow at Adrenaline?

Justin, what's the curb weight of the car?  That will tie our hands with regards to tubing dimensions.  I can't imagine it being over 2700 lbs, but it is German.

Thanks Jon!  I asked explicitly about NASCAR bars, and Rick said, "No problem."  Then I asked, just to be super certain, if those bent into the door, and he conferred with someone in the background before saying, "No, we don't do that."

Freight for the Miata's spare diff & subframe from Texas ran me $140 in '07, so an AutoPower cage would run right at $900.  We could consider buying the bolt-in kit, putting it in, and adding some welds just for our own happiness.  Shipping takes 3 - 4 weeks, but we could put the cage together with a day or two.  Just a thought...

I spent some time the other night watching videos from 2008's South competition, and I can't see where these cars are going fast enough to really scare me into believing we need anything super high-tech.  I mean, unless you plan on driving straight into the tire-wall chicane.

[Conemasher]

I just talked to Rick, and there's a big difference between what he thought we needed and what we do in fact need.  He's accustomed to working on dragsters, which have dramatically different cage requirements.  I'm going to swing by his shop tomorrow with the SCCA GCR's and pictures of my car.

But some questions he answered:

1.  They do not do NASCAR bars (bent into the door area).
2.  No serious price difference between 1 1/2" and 1 5/8" tubing
3.  No gussets
4.  Yes, he meant a 6-point roll-bar--not a cage at all.

Expect the price to rise dramatically when I show him pictures...


Did anyone ever see if there's an AutoPower solution?  We could always have a pre-fabbed cage welded into place.

Ugggghhh....what is the minimum we can get away with? I'm sure we don't want to have $1500 tied up in a Lemons cage.

[ahamos]

I'm tentatively voting for the AutoPower bolt-in kit.  Yeah, we lose the NASCAR bars, and yeah, it's a bolt-in, but we can weld some of the joints if we want, and save some serious coin.

I was wrong on the weight, too (should have checked the Lemons rules first):  we can run 1.5", but that doesn't affect the price of the kit.  It may affect shipping, though.

[Conemasher]

Alright, we got an estimate on the cage from Stock Car Products.  For a 6 point cage made out of 1.75" x .095" HREW tubing with NASCAR door bars we are looking at $310 for the steel and either $420 or $700 for labor depending on whether we want it bolted or welded to the car.  If everyone is fine spending an additional $50, I would rather get it welded.  They said they can get it done in about 4 days and can start on it whenever we pay them.

What are everyone's thoughts?  Given their short turnaround, we could wait until we hear about being accepted.  That would give time to shop around some more if we wanted to as well.

Let me know and I can go pick the car up...or leave it there and have them start on the cage, if that is what everyone wants.

We may want to revisit this^ Am I reading that this would be $730 bolted in with nascar bars?

[blue06civic]

I also think that Stock Car Products is the way to go.  And yes, it is $730 for the cage bolted in and ~$1,000 for the cage if it is welded in.  Chris at SCP said he can do the NASCAR bars if we skin the door, but that will make the car much harder to get out of since the door opening is so small (compared to the 2dr V8 RWD cars they normally go in).  He also had some other downsides that I don't remember and recommended not doing NASCAR bars since there are more downsides than the single upside of more room.  He also said that they would mount the racing seat for us for free while they were doing the cage if we bought the seat rail kit (~$25).

The car does weigh under 2700lbs, from talking with Bill Thomas it was more like 2400lbs.  I can't do lunch at Adrenaline, I work in the West End so just travelling down there and back would take more than an hour.

[ahamos]

I'd like to talk to the Stock Car Products folks.  Where are they?

At this point I don't even think it's worth my time to go to Adrenaline tomorrow.

[blue06civic]

They are on Route 10 about 1 mile off of 288.  I talked to Chris down there, the number is (804) 232-3500.  I think they do a lot of the circle track cars around here.  Their website is www.stockcarproducts.com.  When I talked to them we will basically get an Enduro cage (shown on their website) with two rear bars going to the strut towers.  The NASCAR door bars are a $10 option, but again, he recommended not getting them.

[Conemasher]

On a different note:

There is a Henrico County auction Feb 20th. I was thinking of going to get an old cop car, more because I've always wanted one than for lemons. What is the chance i can get one for $500? The list shows 21 being auctioned off this auction. Anyone want to go check it out with me? It is a Friday, so I'll have to ask off work.

http://www.co.henrico.va.us/genserv/purchasing/surplussales.html

[blue06civic]

It's too bad that's on a Friday, I would like to go.  I dunno that you will be able to get one for $500, but if you can it would be a good Lemons car for the fall   If you want to meet there during lunch on the Wednesday preview day, I would be up for that as long as nothing comes up at work.

[wahoo5]

Sounds like the Stock Car Products cage is the way to go. Scott, any word on our application?

David

[Conemasher]

It's too bad that's on a Friday, I would like to go.  I dunno that you will be able to get one for $500, but if you can it would be a good Lemons car for the fall   If you want to meet there during lunch on the Wednesday preview day, I would be up for that as long as nothing comes up at work.

Cool. I'll keep you posted.

[Conemasher]

Sounds like the Stock Car Products cage is the way to go. Scott, any word on our application?

David

Deadline is tomorrow. I anticipate an answer early next week.

BTW- Please email the following information to me ASAP. I need to fill in the blanks on our app.

Send me a head shot photo if possible.

email address

contact phone #

address

DOB

driver's license #

Comp license type and number with expiration date if you have one that is accepted or will you be using a waiver (+$50)

emergency contact number

Send to conemasher at comcast d0t net

[Conemasher]

I sure hope this was sent in error. I replied back to get clarification. Notice it is dated December and refers to the Houston event.

24 December 2008

Dear Team Captain:

Thanks very much for applying to LeMons Gator-O-Rama. We got a lot more applications than the circuit can handle, so we faced some tough choices selecting the grid. I'm sorry to say that your team didn't make it. You have made the WAITLIST, however.

The waitlist is randomized, so I can't predict if or when you'll be offered a spot to move up. At past events, between one-third and two-thirds of waitlisted teams have ended up racing.

If you're ready to take your chances, you need to reply to this email: List your team's name, and say that you want to remain on the waitlist. You'll be free to accept or decline any offer that comes along later, no strings attached.

If you'd rather bail out, send a reply listing your team name and telling me to perform an anatomically unlikely act with the non-mammalian species of your choice. I'll get the message.

Thanks again for the app, and sorry the news isn't quite what you wanted. I do hope we see you at this or another race soon. Best regards--JL

Jay Lamm, Chief Perpetrator
24 HOURS OF LeMONS
5675 Horton Street, Suite C
Emeryville CA 94608
510.655.5980 x23 (Jay direct)
jlamm@driversdoor.com

© 2008, DriversDoor Inc, as if anyone cared

[Conemasher]

Well. I just heard back. We didn't get in. We can be on the wait list, or we can try again in the fall. I actually would rather know for sure before plopping down cage money. What do you guys want to do? I'll need to email him back if we want to be on the wait list.

[blue06civic]

I'd say try again in the fall.  Tony, I'll give you a call about getting the car back to you and figuring out how we want to split parts costs, I've got a stack of receipts at home.  On the upside, the car starts, idles and doesn't appear to be overheating anymore

[Conemasher]

Let me know what needs to happen on this. I don't want anyone to lose money. I can put something toward what was installed if need be. I WILL resubmit for the fall race.

[ahamos]

I don't see any reason to stop development on the car.  If we're still planning on doing any race, we'll still need a race car, and if we're still developing a race car, we might as well be on the waiting list.

[Conemasher]

I'll waiting list us, but I do not want to commit to the cage until we are in. If we get in, we drop the car off after that.

[blue06civic]

I'll waiting list us, but I do not want to commit to the cage until we are in. If we get in, we drop the car off after that.

I'm in the same boat.

[Conemasher]

Adrian, I will need the following information so I can re-submit. Rumor has it that incomplete info is one of the reasons teams don't get in. It's my fault for not catching this sooner, but if I correct it now, maybe we can get in off the waiting list.

 

Sounds like the Stock Car Products cage is the way to go. Scott, any word on our application?

David

Deadline is tomorrow. I anticipate an answer early next week.

BTW- Please email the following information to me ASAP. I need to fill in the blanks on our app.

Send me a head shot photo if possible.

email address

contact phone #

address

DOB

driver's license #

Comp license type and number with expiration date if you have one that is accepted or will you be using a waiver (+$50)

emergency contact number

Send to conemasher at comcast d0t net

[Mugami]

I'd say try again in the fall.  Tony, I'll give you a call about getting the car back to you and figuring out how we want to split parts costs, I've got a stack of receipts at home.  On the upside, the car starts, idles and doesn't appear to be overheating anymore

you can drop it off wednsday or sunday you know ill be here.  as long as the parts under the 500.00 mark i know we can work something out. I'll also start looking for a bolt in cage this summer and having it lying around if ya'll want to try it this fall. I did find one for 276.00 that was a 10 point .. but cant seem to find it now.. so ill keep looking.

[wahoo5]

I'll waiting list us, but I do not want to commit to the cage until we are in. If we get in, we drop the car off after that.

I'm in the same boat.

I also vote for waiting list. I don't see the downside since we can always say no if it is too close to the race to get the car prepped. We need to add up the money we owe Justin and each pay our share. It's not fair for Justin to bear any expenses alone. Same for you Scott for any money you have spent.

If we end up in the Fall race, we could be racing against Dave and a team from Honda R&D.

David

David